RH: Bhante, I would like to ask you some questions in English about your way of teaching to teach.

AK: Alright.

RH: How do you teach Āyukusala Dhamma teachers, then?

AK: I teach them during the course of their own teaching practise. When those I know as having good progress in meditation and fair understanding of Dhamma show interest, then I watch them while they are teaching and tell them, this is good, this is not so good, you should improve that and you should practise this. So they learn teaching by practising it under supervision. This is one of the main principles. Teaching the Dhamma is not just giving Dhamma talks; Āyukusala teachers facilitate the learners’ own discovery of the Dhamma. For that I take them first as assistants; they sit next to me during teaching sessions and watch what I do. On such occasions they are also asked to conduct, for example, an introductory exercise of anchoring in the bodily reality, to explain how to review a session or to give some simple meditation instruction. This is how I help start them off, but generally I teach them by letting them teach on their own and by improving what is good and correcting what is not so good.

RH: OK. What must a person be to become a Dhamma teacher?

AK: He or she has to be of impeccable character and know the Dhamma well in both its aspects — that is, the teacher has to know the methods, the steps on the path, the procedures of the Dhamma practice known as patipatti, and also has to know the matrices of the Dhamma, the basic paradigms of the Abhidhamma, which we can call the “theory” of the Dhamma, known as pariyatti. And of course such a person has to live in a way which is not harmful to others; that means the Dhamma teacher has to have a good sīla. So in the Dhamma teacher must be these three things: the faultless character of sīla, the practical Dhamma skills of patipatti and the Dhamma knowledge of pariyatti.

RH: Could you sum up what are the requirements to become an Āyukusala teacher?

AK: Such a person has to show a keen interest in teaching, he or she must continue to study Dhamma texts, to practice meditation and to cultivate good sīla. Of course, the most important thing is that the teacher must be able to guide the students.

RH: What does that mean?

AK: To guide people, we first have to listen to them and be able to recognise what is the present problem of each person we teach; but for guiding one should not see only the problems, even more important is to see what are the assets of the person we teach. The teacher should help to solve the problems and to cultivate the good things. The Dhamma teacher must also know how to motivate the students, how to inspire them.

RH: So in what fields are they trained for that?

AK: Āyukusala teachers are trained in the practice of meditation first, then in the matrices of Abhidhamma, because no advanced meditation is possible without knowledge of these matrices. There is no personal progress possible and no guiding of others possible without skill in distinguishing the variety of experience both in meditation and in everyday life. For this skill of discerning phenomena (dhamma–vicaya) one has to have good knowledge of the Abhidhamma matrices. For guiding people the Āyukusala teachers are trained in working both with individuals and groups. For working with individuals it is most important to know how to listen, to be able to understand empathetically the person listened to and to judge well to what aims one should guide that person. Not less important are the skills of working with the group. How to start a group sitting, how to conduct a group sitting according to whether it is a meditation group or a discussion group, and also how to end group work. One has to clearly mark the beginning and the end in order to realize the transition, the full entrance into the next field of experience — this is the skill of clear comprehension of the experiential realm (gocara–sati–sampajañña). The Buddha taught not only the skills of entering and exiting, but especially also the skill of reviewing (paccavekkhana) which is most important for the progress of learning. Ending both group work and work with an individual is done by reviewing and by making clear the transition from the gocara of Dhamma training to the gocara of everyday life.

RH: How did the Buddha teach teachers? Are there any references in canonical texts?

AK: This is a very difficult question. There are very few occasions mentioned, but he used to praise some for being excellent teachers. One was Mahā Kaccāna and the other Sāriputta. Sāriputta, who was the chief exponent of Abhidhamma, taught skills which were not only for personal use but were also of use in teaching. And even more so Mahā Kaccāna, out of whose discourses were developed books on teaching procedures, especially the Petakopadesa and the Netippakaranam. The Buddha himself sometimes taught very concisely and the person then went to somebody else to ask for further explanation. Mostly it was to Mahā Kaccāna, who explained in detail what Buddha taught concisely. This is one of the basic teaching routines. Another is that Buddha asks his pupils to speak with each other about their meditation progress, about how they master their life. Yet another is that Buddha used to teach according to the situation. He would come to some place where there were monks and inquire how they were doing in their meditation and in their everyday life. Then he either admonished them to improve something or praised them for how they proceed, how they treat each other, how they teach each other. We should not forget that the Buddha’s basic teaching principle is noble friendship (kalyāna–mittatā), which means teaching each other as the need arises.

RH: Venerable Sir, you have been teaching at several universities, you have been training psychologists and psychiatrists in psychotherapy, you have supervised professionals working with people — what did all that have common with teaching Dhamma teachers and what is different in teaching them?

AK: What was common was that I have always respected what is the actual position, what is the present problem and what are the abilities of the audience. So, whether in university lectures or in psychotherapy training or in any other setting, I was always trying to understand what is the experiencing and what is the knowledge of those whom I teach. And this is the same principle as in the anu–sāsana, the Buddha’s own way of teaching. It was always given according to the situation, according to the state of affairs and according to the state of mind and abilities of the individual or of the group. There is one difference, though. When I was teaching at the university, I had to follow the syllabus. When I was teaching the methodology of research, I could teach something about mindfulness and the researcher’s mental hygiene, but only so far as it fitted into the syllabus. When I was giving lectures on psychotherapy or on general psychology, I could teach something which is connected with paññā, with wisdom, but at the university really no wisdom is expected. It is just only knowledge and information that is wanted by those who finance universities. So I had to comply with the university’s requirements. While training psychotherapists, I had to teach them the skills and the knowledge necessary for helping people to overcome their problems. While teaching Dhamma, as well as that I also teach what leads the person or the group a step further towards the highest goal of Buddha’s teaching, the overcoming of all suffering and removing the causes of suffering. The goals of scientific work are defined by those who pay the money for it, the goals of psychotherapy are defined by the patients, but the goals of Dhamma are defined by the Buddha. So, when I teach the Dhamma, I do care for the situation of those whom I teach, but I set myself the same goals the Buddha set.

RH: I have been trained four years in satitherapy, which is the form of psychotherapy you have developed on the basis of Abhidhamma. Now you are training me to become a Dhamma teacher. What is the main difference in the goals you are aiming at?

AK: What you were trained to do in satitherapy was how to help patients, couples, families, groups, to solve their problems. People who come to you as a psychotherapist expect you help them to solve their problems, to remove the difficulties they know. And for that you were trained how to create the therapy situation, the protected space in which the patient can explore him or herself. You were trained how to start and how to finish an individual or group psychotherapy sitting. While you have been training in psychotherapy, you have been trained how to work upon the orders of your customers, of your clients, of your patients. When I teach you to teach Dhamma, I want you to put that aside and to teach according to the goals formulated by the Buddha.

RH: Some of the Dhamma teachers you have trained were university professors. Was that professional background helpful for them?

AK: There was really only one, Ivana, who was a sociology professor at the Olomouc University before becoming a Dhamma teacher. Veronika had been just an assistant or a student tutor and only after she became a Dhamma teacher did she complete her Ph.D. thesis on satitherapy and start her academic career. The same is true of Karel, who is the very first Czech teacher of Āyukusala and became a professor at the Medical Faculty of Charles University in Prague only years later. The only advantage of this university background to them as Dhamma teachers might be their high social status and the respect paid them by the general public. They are also very special in comparison with other university teachers because they have the know–how of group dynamics and other didactic skills which are not usual.

RH: What has happened to the teachers you trained in Switzerland and in Sri Lanka?

AK: There are only very few whom I trained in Sri Lanka. Some of them are monks, some I knew for more than twenty years. They just come to discuss their procedures with me. At present there are two Czech monks in Sri Lanka, Venerable Ākāsa Kusala and Venerable Tīrana Kusala, both systematically trained by me. The best of Dhamma teachers of German origin is Matthias Nyānacitta, who was formerly Venerable Nyānacitta and is now a laymen. He and his wife teach in a meditation centre in Thailand. So these are the few Dhamma teachers I trained recently in Sri Lanka. From Switzerland I do not have much news. I left Switzerland for Sri Lanka more then twenty years ago and then I went back only for a short time before moving to Czechia. Those days in Switzerland I trained two types of Dhamma teachers. Firstly my colleagues and my students, who became psychotherapists, psychologists, psychiatrists — so far as I know, none of them is working as a Dhamma teacher, they would refer to me as their psychoanalyst. Some of them might practise satitherapy, but Swiss health insurance would not pay them for Dhamma or for satitherapy. So, I think they work as psychoanalysts, psychotherapists, and within that frame they may teach some Dhamma because they remember that it has helped them. The other type are the people who were my patients and then became meditation teachers; some I mention in my German book on Abhidhamma, published later in English as The Art of Happiness (Shambhala Publications, Boston & London 1989).

RH: What prevents a teacher who has not yet realised the highest goal of the Buddha’s path from misleading his or her pupils?

AK: Most important is that the Dhamma teacher knows his or her own limits. This is also an important source of the teacher’s personal power. The teacher’s strength comes from modestly admitting what he does not know. Nevertheless, the teacher should be able also to say: this I do know, this I know to that specific extent. A good meditation teacher says clearly, here are my limits, I am not in a position to guide you further.

RH: What do you do when you find out that somebody, whom you trained as a teacher, is preaching bullshit?

AK: I would tell the person to stop it. I say it directly to the person in a personal talk and also explain what I do not like about it, but I would also point out what the Buddha taught. If that person continues to teach things like “kundalini–vipassana”, “metta–vipassana” in combination or “dynamic vipassana”, I would also publicly explain why that cannot work as a path to liberation. Eventually I would openly say that what that person is teaching is not the Buddha’s teaching. But this would be about the strongest measure I take against a person who is selling some bullshit under the name of Buddhism.

RH: How would you help people to quickly recognise that some pseudo–teacher is misleading them?

AK: It is very difficult to help people who are misled. One thing — as the Buddha did — is just to point out publicly what the pseudo–teachers teach wrongly. I would do it mostly without naming those wrong doers in order not to provoke a fight. The other thing — which I prefer — is to point out what is wrong and to offer good alternatives. And for that I need the assistance of other Dhamma teachers. But the best way to help people to recognise who is teaching true Dhamma and who is a pseudo–teacher is to help them with their own personal progress and to help them take personal responsibility for their following a teacher of their choice. It can be done in the same way as Buddha taught in the Kālāma–Sutta. He tells you there, go and test it, try the teaching in practice: if it is for your good, then continue; if it is for not, then stop. But there are always people whose pathology fits in with the pathology of the pseudo–teachers. So you cannot help anybody against his or her own will. The most you can do is to point out what is not Dhamma and what the Buddha really taught.

RH: So how would you sum up the main characteristics of a good teacher?

AK: Well….there are two of them. One is that the teacher listens closely and understands fully those whom he is teaching. And the other is honesty, that the teacher does not pretend to know more than he or she really knows. That’s it.

RH: Venerable Sir, thank you for the interview.

 

Āyukusala Central European Sangha – ACES
e–mail: ayukusala@web.de or ayukusala@hotmail.com

 

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